That was definitely not my fault? My stupid sylladex launched it out the window. [A beat.] I mean I maybe threw it into an ocean of oil on LOWAS but that's different.
You only won round one. The debate's still going and team Egbert will strike back when you aren't looking. Trust me. It is all part of the plan. [But...sigh.]
Like I said, I think I'm ready to keep going. The island is mostly full of mysteries and no answers.
[...the hesitance isn't missed and he looks up curiously, drawing his legs to his chest and eyeing Dave just as cautiously. He doesn't say anything at first, but there's a nod to indicate he should continue. The "we" isn't a mystery to him at all.]
there's a few minutes of silence as dave debates completely backtracking, before he decides he wants to check with someone, and he doesn't want to hear rose's analyzation about it; he wants to hear from someone who epitomizes normal for him if he's overreacting or underreacting or...reacting all wrong in some other way. he can't tell any longer, and dave is at least self-aware enough to know he doesn't have the distance he needs to gauge what would be logical. ]
He made a math workbook for us to go through together, or whatever. [ which seems like a weird activity, maybe, but dave has always liked math and john probably knows that. this seems innocuous enough? ] And then apparently destroyed his memories of all the problems?
[ dave decides not to append his own opinion to this, simply staring at john to see if the latter half of the explanation gets any reaction. to see if it gets dave's reaction, specifically, and to gauge exactly what he should be feeling.
[He's patient enough and even while Dave's silent John's learned that he just has to wait it out even if it sort of drives him crazy. He stays seated and makes no sudden movements or sounds aside from picking at a loose thread in his jeans before Dave speaks.
And then. John thinks about that.]
Why would he destroy his own memories? [The question is unsure and equally baffled, if only because as far as he's aware wouldn't changing memories change timelines and who Dirk is? Sure, okay, maybe they would fill in later once he resolved the problems but that's still a little alarming if it means Dirk's regard for himself is...that, basically.] That's what he told you?
[Yeah. He knows. And it's for that reason he's not even sure how to feel about that and his expression shifts back to something blank.]
He said this after it was already done before even checking if that would be something that would be interesting to both of you? [He's not accusing Dirk of anything, but he's busy putting together pieces in his head.]
I think it would only be on you if you said "hey Dirk, I want a challenge for both of us so I think you should figure out a way to make this harder than necessary" and since that sounds like me and not you...
[What a mess.] I know we talked about this and I know what he is trying to do, but...it's still weird, isn't it?
[ his shoulders slump in something that might halfway be relief or something near to it. ]
So you think that was a bit much, too. [ it's not just dave being too sensitive. ] I just kept thinkin' "what if you'd fucked it up, though" after he said and I don't think I was great company after that.
Dirk is...a little intense, based on what you've told me. [So yeah, he thinks it's a little too much and his tone expresses it well enough. He's been okay with John, a little awkward sometimes but okay. Knowing what he knows, and knowing a little of how Dirk feels about Dave, he can only haphazardly guess.] Jake made it sound like once Dirk focused on wanting to be friends and hang out with someone it's hard for him to disengage.
[Which. Is hard for someone like Dave who wants space. Even John knows that despite being privileged enough to falsely believe Dave wants space sometimes.] I think maybe he would do anything if he thought it would give him ground to level with you, but I also don't think he actually sees it as that because he doesn't really know you. He just knows the guy in his own timeline. [There's a pause as he wets his lips with his tongue, thoughtful for a moment as he thinks of how to explain.]
I didn't tell you about how I first met him, did I? In our own universe and whatever.
[ there's a lot in there dave could respond to or comment on - and maybe he will later, at some point, but for now he responds to the question asked. ]
No. [ he'd asked dirk what he'd done to make john seem a little awkward about the topic of dirk, way back on day zero, but the answer hadn't been explicit as to how they'd met, really. ]
Well. I figured out how to zap back to our own timeline after bouncing around everywhere, but by the time I got there everything was already over. Everyone was gone. There was all this, like, glitchy shit everywhere because the timeline was a mess, and when I found him he told me that he had failed and disappeared straight into the glitches. [So, technically, Dirk also died.]
Dirk was the first person I saw when I got here. Before Jake, before you and before Rose. He's who I found in the woods and we headed back to the mansion. And we talked a little and...I don't know. It was my fault, too, and he argued with me about it for a long time. It was my fault I don't know how those powers work, but he kept insisting it was his because there was a fragment of himself inside Jake's head that Jake made real and then that piece of him or whatever failed everybody else. And because of that failure he fucked off into the glitches and that was that.
...Roxy was pretty upset about it, but I sort of wonder if this is normal behavior. He seems really caught up on what destruction means. [There's a shrug.] But the thing is that you can't be taking on someone else's expectations either? Like. That's not fair. That would be the same if Jade was here and Jake wanted her to be like his Grandma or Jane was around and I expected her to act like Nanna. Dirk told me that the other version of you left behind a whole bunch of movies and stuff, just ideas and fragments of who you were in that timeline and that's how Dirk is working. Fragments. Fragments and destructive decisions because he's apparently used to that.
I don't know how isolation works, but it's like those guys in the movies when they are alone and stranded in the desert forever, and then they come across a fresh water source and try to drink way too much too fast because that is what they have been missing. You are the water in this case, and going too fast is going to make you disappear.
[ dave actually does understand isolation. they never left the apartment much; bro would take him out sometimes, occasionally, for shopping trips where dave wasn't sure he got much of anything of use. the hyperbolic training chamber was just another variation of isolation, though. when they were in the apartment bro was always there but dave could only rarely see him and if he could it was bad news. he understood very well what it was like to be alone.
john and rose and jade had been his water source.
even so. even so, he's uncertain how to handle any of it, and there are too many reasons why and none john knows. dave frowns, and then after a minutes pushes off the bed to stand. there's another hesitation before he walks over and crouches in front of john. ]
It wasn't your fault. [ this was not remotely the point of john's story but that's the part dave can process and acknowledge and address, in a quieter and more serious than usual tone. ] Rose would tell you the same thing. She will, if you ever say that to her. It wasn't your fault.
[He has an argument for that, but it dies somewhere in his throat. Dave had moved and now he was in front of him and this hut is so fucking small and there's really nowhere for either of them to go from here. There's so much he doesn't understand, and even more he doesn't realize he doesn't understand. He wants to argue that it's his fault as much as Dirk's, the same argument he'd already had with one Strider...
...but this isn't about that. Dave's trying to make it about that, but John's not going to let him make it about that.]
I know. [He doesn't, but it doesn't matter. He can fix the mistakes. This was something bigger.] It doesn't matter anymore, I can still fix it. I can make things right again once we get back. But I think...I don't have an answer, really. I get it. When you feel like you failed everyone, you probably don't want to be around those people very much. And like I told you, everything with him and Jake is awkward and even moreso since Jake has issues too, I guess. So you're the next on Dirk's list of people, and if isolation means being desperate for anything solid then...[A shrug.]
Both of you sometimes suck at communicating. Must be a Strider thing. [A half-hearted teasing grin.] But it comes back to that whole weird thing where they think we're heroes and we're just...us. I just wonder if Dirk knows what limits are when it comes to trying to make something work. It's not like you know when to give shit a rest when you're really stubborn about it, too.
[There's a short pause before he looks away.] Maybe he just doesn't understand why the hell this would be weird on the flipside.
Hey, don't lie. [ it's a hypocritical thing to say. he knows it. john probably knows it, but - ] You can say you don't wanna talk about it now or ever, but please? Don't say it doesn't matter or you know when you don't, dumbass. You don't have to agree with me but don't just say you do and go with it.
[ every word makes him a bigger hypocrite...rest in pieces. dave kind of wants to reach out but he never knows how to, so he just locks his arms around the knee he isn't kneeling on. ]
I know. I know that he thinks of me like - I know he never had a family. [ dave never did either, not one who loved him or whom he loved without reserve, not until rose. ] I know he grew up on pieces of a guy who shared my name and face and probably some other shit. He did SBaHJ stuff? Dirk has a fuckin' tattoo - but I know. I know it's...I know it's weird and I know there are reasons why he's so...himself about this, I just...
[ the things he has never said, will maybe never say. ]
...it's just...difficult. I don't know how to handle him. I know I'm doin' it wrong, but every time I'm around him I just want to run away. The best time was literally when you were there, 'cause at least that was - [ safe ] - less awkward. I don't know how to try right. I don't know how to not make him do...things like erase his own memories 'cause I can't do it right, the whole Strider family thing.
I don't want to talk about it now. [That's almost immediate after Dave says that first part because...he doesn't. He doesn't want to talk about this when he's focusing on a bigger problem and when it's his own shit to handle. Maybe that, too, makes him hypocritical.
So instead he's up against the wall and he's staring at a point on Dave's knee instead of at his face while he digests the rest.]
Movies. He made SBaHJ movies that were kind of a huge thing. [He shakes his head before there's a very quiet sigh.] What would even be the right way to handle this shit? It's not like anybody left us a playbook on all of this right next to my ectobiologist suit or anything. I. [...there's a pause, awkward and uncertain for a moment.] I can't always be there. Neither can Rose. And I can't stop things from colliding again like they did by explaining this to Dirk because that's not really my place either? You're my best friend and it's stupid for me or Rose or anybody else to tell other people stuff you tell us.
[He can only assume that Dave's probably told Rose. The importance of Rose Lalonde has never been lost on him. Not after what Dave did for Rose. Not after the two of them went down together for each other.]
I think...he's less awkward with me because I'm the furthest point of contact. So I mean. Maybe I can figure this out, but I know you don't know how to handle it. That was pretty obvious. I told you that days ago and it's still true. I think maybe he would do stuff like that even if you were not in the picture. I still can't figure out the stuff with him and Jake, and Dirk and I have talked enough times that I think I can sort of figure him out but it's not as easy as talking to you or Rose. And it probably never will be. So...if I don't get to blame myself, I'm not really sure you should get to either. But I also am not sure what to do. [He's waiting for permission, maybe. Maybe that's it? A sign from Dave that he can take some of the burden and fix things here. He had wanted to fix things back then and then the Strilondes took the Tumor and ran. He's slightly alarmed that DAve is even telling him this, but he knows better, aware that this is what it means to be friends with someone and be as supportive as possible. At the same time, he has to wonder if this is enough. If this keeps happening and hurting them both. Is it enough? Is it even his place to fix this, too? What falls in his domain of fixing anymore, anyway? Fuck.]
I'm not sure what to do, either. [ honestly, he never has been. he thinks maybe he should play it off and tell john it's fine, but it's so obvious it isn't. sharing even this much is a form of damage control - and maybe that's kind of fucked up, but dave can't help thinking it, even as he acknowledges it to himself.
he doesn't mention blame again. if john doesn't want to talk about it they won't talk about it. he knows if he says "i don't want to talk about dirk" they won't talk about dirk, but the more important factor here is "i don't want you to give my issue with dirk enough thought to find the truth". so there has to be some kind of truth beyond the Truth to find. ]
And I know you can't always be there. [ they lived for three years without john, and rose wasn't always there either; she was drunk, or busy, or - not around. dave relies on them but he is used to not having them there, too. in any other situation he'd pull in and not say a word, but bro has always been his biggest weakness. it has never been in a good way. ] I have to learn to handle it on my own. I just need...time. Or - I don't know. The whole trainin' idea, we stopped that, and there isn't really a thing I want to do with him that'd get me used to him. I'm willin' to do shit I don't want to do but he doesn't want that, so it's sort of, like, checkmate? I'm doin' it wrong because I can't make myself want what he wants, and if I had the dude never would have messed with his own memories. If he'd fucked that up, it would've been on me.
[There's almost a humorless laugh at that. The Knight of Time needing time. It's sort of sad, isn't it? They're all thrown off here and he thinks maybe to point that out, but he doesn't. He doesn't know how deep this runs and he doesn't know what to say to make it better. Maybe that's not his place.
As a leader, isn't he supposed to know how to handle his team and back up their weaknesses? What the fuck happens when that can't happen?]
I think you might mean stalemate, but sure. Okay. I know. I know you know all of this and just. [It's frustrating. He's not mad at Dave and he's not mad at Dirk but the whole thing is frustrating and annoying.] Explain something to me. How exactly is it wrong to not force yourself to do something you don't really want to do? [There's a point, but he's curious to what Dave will say.]
[ ah. dave knows immediately the truth won't save him here. because the truth is he is supposed to do whatever bro wants him to do. he is supposed to fall in line and be the good soldier and even if he's struggling with the impulse by going as far in the other direction as he can (even if he keeps trying to capitulate anyway) dave never stops feeling completely in the wrong for not simply letting dirk do whatever he wants. the puppet master and the marionette. his entire childhood.
his entire life, really.
it's wrong because it goes against every instinct instilled in him from birth on. but dave's aware it shouldn't be wrong, or isn't wrong in the egbertian point of view, the one that currently matters.
accordingly, he picks a different truth. ]
In this case, I'd say it's wrong because not doin' it or compromisin' is causing someone else to hurt themselves. Allowing that to happen, knowingly, ain't really the mark of a great person, John.
So compromising and letting you and Rose handle the Tumor makes me a bad person because I didn't force myself to fight harder? [It's not the same thing. He knows it isn't, but he's throwing that out there anyway.] Oooor not forcing myself to figure out a way to stop Jade when she was all grimbark and letting her hurt herself and everyone else also makes me a bad person?
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Like I said, I think I'm ready to keep going. The island is mostly full of mysteries and no answers.
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[ he hesitates, joking smile fading a little, and eyes john from across the room. ]
So, [ soooooooooo. ] earlier today, when we made the clothes...
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Did something happen?
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there's a few minutes of silence as dave debates completely backtracking, before he decides he wants to check with someone, and he doesn't want to hear rose's analyzation about it; he wants to hear from someone who epitomizes normal for him if he's overreacting or underreacting or...reacting all wrong in some other way. he can't tell any longer, and dave is at least self-aware enough to know he doesn't have the distance he needs to gauge what would be logical. ]
He made a math workbook for us to go through together, or whatever. [ which seems like a weird activity, maybe, but dave has always liked math and john probably knows that. this seems innocuous enough? ] And then apparently destroyed his memories of all the problems?
[ dave decides not to append his own opinion to this, simply staring at john to see if the latter half of the explanation gets any reaction. to see if it gets dave's reaction, specifically, and to gauge exactly what he should be feeling.
this is stupid. ]
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And then. John thinks about that.]
Why would he destroy his own memories? [The question is unsure and equally baffled, if only because as far as he's aware wouldn't changing memories change timelines and who Dirk is? Sure, okay, maybe they would fill in later once he resolved the problems but that's still a little alarming if it means Dirk's regard for himself is...that, basically.] That's what he told you?
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[ a curiously flat tone, of, well. yeah, john can guess how much dave enjoys people doing things like that for his sake? ]
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He said this after it was already done before even checking if that would be something that would be interesting to both of you? [He's not accusing Dirk of anything, but he's busy putting together pieces in his head.]
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[ WITHOUT ASKING. SO HE COULD ABSCOND. ]
I didn't really know what he meant or what he was gonna do, but I...agreed. So. It is on me.
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[What a mess.] I know we talked about this and I know what he is trying to do, but...it's still weird, isn't it?
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So you think that was a bit much, too. [ it's not just dave being too sensitive. ] I just kept thinkin' "what if you'd fucked it up, though" after he said and I don't think I was great company after that.
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[Which. Is hard for someone like Dave who wants space. Even John knows that despite being privileged enough to falsely believe Dave wants space sometimes.] I think maybe he would do anything if he thought it would give him ground to level with you, but I also don't think he actually sees it as that because he doesn't really know you. He just knows the guy in his own timeline. [There's a pause as he wets his lips with his tongue, thoughtful for a moment as he thinks of how to explain.]
I didn't tell you about how I first met him, did I? In our own universe and whatever.
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No. [ he'd asked dirk what he'd done to make john seem a little awkward about the topic of dirk, way back on day zero, but the answer hadn't been explicit as to how they'd met, really. ]
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Dirk was the first person I saw when I got here. Before Jake, before you and before Rose. He's who I found in the woods and we headed back to the mansion. And we talked a little and...I don't know. It was my fault, too, and he argued with me about it for a long time. It was my fault I don't know how those powers work, but he kept insisting it was his because there was a fragment of himself inside Jake's head that Jake made real and then that piece of him or whatever failed everybody else. And because of that failure he fucked off into the glitches and that was that.
...Roxy was pretty upset about it, but I sort of wonder if this is normal behavior. He seems really caught up on what destruction means. [There's a shrug.] But the thing is that you can't be taking on someone else's expectations either? Like. That's not fair. That would be the same if Jade was here and Jake wanted her to be like his Grandma or Jane was around and I expected her to act like Nanna. Dirk told me that the other version of you left behind a whole bunch of movies and stuff, just ideas and fragments of who you were in that timeline and that's how Dirk is working. Fragments. Fragments and destructive decisions because he's apparently used to that.
I don't know how isolation works, but it's like those guys in the movies when they are alone and stranded in the desert forever, and then they come across a fresh water source and try to drink way too much too fast because that is what they have been missing. You are the water in this case, and going too fast is going to make you disappear.
[...so maybe he got carried away.]
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john and rose and jade had been his water source.
even so. even so, he's uncertain how to handle any of it, and there are too many reasons why and none john knows. dave frowns, and then after a minutes pushes off the bed to stand. there's another hesitation before he walks over and crouches in front of john. ]
It wasn't your fault. [ this was not remotely the point of john's story but that's the part dave can process and acknowledge and address, in a quieter and more serious than usual tone. ] Rose would tell you the same thing. She will, if you ever say that to her. It wasn't your fault.
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...but this isn't about that. Dave's trying to make it about that, but John's not going to let him make it about that.]
I know. [He doesn't, but it doesn't matter. He can fix the mistakes. This was something bigger.] It doesn't matter anymore, I can still fix it. I can make things right again once we get back. But I think...I don't have an answer, really. I get it. When you feel like you failed everyone, you probably don't want to be around those people very much. And like I told you, everything with him and Jake is awkward and even moreso since Jake has issues too, I guess. So you're the next on Dirk's list of people, and if isolation means being desperate for anything solid then...[A shrug.]
Both of you sometimes suck at communicating. Must be a Strider thing. [A half-hearted teasing grin.] But it comes back to that whole weird thing where they think we're heroes and we're just...us. I just wonder if Dirk knows what limits are when it comes to trying to make something work. It's not like you know when to give shit a rest when you're really stubborn about it, too.
[There's a short pause before he looks away.] Maybe he just doesn't understand why the hell this would be weird on the flipside.
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[ every word makes him a bigger hypocrite...rest in pieces. dave kind of wants to reach out but he never knows how to, so he just locks his arms around the knee he isn't kneeling on. ]
I know. I know that he thinks of me like - I know he never had a family. [ dave never did either, not one who loved him or whom he loved without reserve, not until rose. ] I know he grew up on pieces of a guy who shared my name and face and probably some other shit. He did SBaHJ stuff? Dirk has a fuckin' tattoo - but I know. I know it's...I know it's weird and I know there are reasons why he's so...himself about this, I just...
[ the things he has never said, will maybe never say. ]
...it's just...difficult. I don't know how to handle him. I know I'm doin' it wrong, but every time I'm around him I just want to run away. The best time was literally when you were there, 'cause at least that was - [ safe ] - less awkward. I don't know how to try right. I don't know how to not make him do...things like erase his own memories 'cause I can't do it right, the whole Strider family thing.
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So instead he's up against the wall and he's staring at a point on Dave's knee instead of at his face while he digests the rest.]
Movies. He made SBaHJ movies that were kind of a huge thing. [He shakes his head before there's a very quiet sigh.] What would even be the right way to handle this shit? It's not like anybody left us a playbook on all of this right next to my ectobiologist suit or anything. I. [...there's a pause, awkward and uncertain for a moment.] I can't always be there. Neither can Rose. And I can't stop things from colliding again like they did by explaining this to Dirk because that's not really my place either? You're my best friend and it's stupid for me or Rose or anybody else to tell other people stuff you tell us.
[He can only assume that Dave's probably told Rose. The importance of Rose Lalonde has never been lost on him. Not after what Dave did for Rose. Not after the two of them went down together for each other.]
I think...he's less awkward with me because I'm the furthest point of contact. So I mean. Maybe I can figure this out, but I know you don't know how to handle it. That was pretty obvious. I told you that days ago and it's still true. I think maybe he would do stuff like that even if you were not in the picture. I still can't figure out the stuff with him and Jake, and Dirk and I have talked enough times that I think I can sort of figure him out but it's not as easy as talking to you or Rose. And it probably never will be. So...if I don't get to blame myself, I'm not really sure you should get to either. But I also am not sure what to do. [He's waiting for permission, maybe. Maybe that's it? A sign from Dave that he can take some of the burden and fix things here. He had wanted to fix things back then and then the Strilondes took the Tumor and ran. He's slightly alarmed that DAve is even telling him this, but he knows better, aware that this is what it means to be friends with someone and be as supportive as possible. At the same time, he has to wonder if this is enough. If this keeps happening and hurting them both. Is it enough? Is it even his place to fix this, too? What falls in his domain of fixing anymore, anyway? Fuck.]
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he doesn't mention blame again. if john doesn't want to talk about it they won't talk about it. he knows if he says "i don't want to talk about dirk" they won't talk about dirk, but the more important factor here is "i don't want you to give my issue with dirk enough thought to find the truth". so there has to be some kind of truth beyond the Truth to find. ]
And I know you can't always be there. [ they lived for three years without john, and rose wasn't always there either; she was drunk, or busy, or - not around. dave relies on them but he is used to not having them there, too. in any other situation he'd pull in and not say a word, but bro has always been his biggest weakness. it has never been in a good way. ] I have to learn to handle it on my own. I just need...time. Or - I don't know. The whole trainin' idea, we stopped that, and there isn't really a thing I want to do with him that'd get me used to him. I'm willin' to do shit I don't want to do but he doesn't want that, so it's sort of, like, checkmate? I'm doin' it wrong because I can't make myself want what he wants, and if I had the dude never would have messed with his own memories. If he'd fucked that up, it would've been on me.
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As a leader, isn't he supposed to know how to handle his team and back up their weaknesses? What the fuck happens when that can't happen?]
I think you might mean stalemate, but sure. Okay. I know. I know you know all of this and just. [It's frustrating. He's not mad at Dave and he's not mad at Dirk but the whole thing is frustrating and annoying.] Explain something to me. How exactly is it wrong to not force yourself to do something you don't really want to do? [There's a point, but he's curious to what Dave will say.]
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his entire life, really.
it's wrong because it goes against every instinct instilled in him from birth on. but dave's aware it shouldn't be wrong, or isn't wrong in the egbertian point of view, the one that currently matters.
accordingly, he picks a different truth. ]
In this case, I'd say it's wrong because not doin' it or compromisin' is causing someone else to hurt themselves. Allowing that to happen, knowingly, ain't really the mark of a great person, John.
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